対談-浜崎貴司vs柴田修平

Interview 01

Takashi Hamasaki (FLYING KIDS) x Shuhei Shibata (organized by STUDIO IKKI) 2020.08

Born June 11, 1965. Born in Utsunomiya City, Tochigi Prefecture. Debuted in 1990 with Flying Kids. In charge of vocals.
After releasing 19 singles and 13 albums, they disbanded in 1998. After that, he worked as a solo artist. FLYING KIDS reunited in 2007.

Click here for the latest information on FLYING KIDS >> http://fk6.jp/

9/11 (Friday) [Billboard Live Tokyo] Audience live & simultaneous streaming will be held!

Shuhei Shibata (↑photo right)
Previous work ``Hair Kata.'' (Josei Modesha)” Producer, “Kamigata”. (Founder of Joshi Modesha). Representative of video production studio [STUDIO IKKI]. Owner of Chuo Line's representative hair salon [Asagaya 3349]. Eternally rebellious.

STUDIO IKKI HP
https://studio-ikki.asagaya3349.com

Hamasaki hair has an amazing color

Shibata: I dyed it yesterday for today.

Hamasaki yellow? Yellow-green? Looks fluorescent

It's the same color as Akihiro Shibata Miwa. It's a color called electric banana.

--Did you two meet for the first time during the FLYING KIDS Asobo MV shooting?
Shibata: That's right. thank you for helping me

Hamasaki, welcome. When we were filming, we didn't have much time to talk.

Shibata : Sorry, my schedule is tight (lol)

HamasakiWhen I first met you for the photo shoot, I had a strong impression that it was strange, including this shop. I wonder who he is.

--The musicians and manga displayed in this shop are not the hobbies of Shuhei's generation, right? If anything, I think people of Mr. Hamasaki's generation are Donzuba.

HamasakiI guess it's a mixture of my own real-time experiences and the culture of a slightly older generation. Things like punk are close to real time. How old are you now?

Shibata: 34

Hamasaki : Absolutely not. How did you get into this kind of thing?
”
IShibata : I can't generalize because of the different eras, but I think I got into punk from the visuals. I would watch videos of the past on TV and see what they looked like.

Hamasaki : I think there is a wide range of choices, but the selection is pretty accurate. I think there's a fine line between what's good and what's not, but I feel like that line is surprisingly the same.

Shibata: I’m happy (lol)

Hamasaki: Recently, something like Prince's live album has been re-released, and it includes a list of the background music that Prince plays at concerts...that's like a list of BGM selected by Prince, and that's our taste and passion. . It's all about people we love, and there aren't any people who don't like it. Perhaps the image of music that Prince admires and respects has been transmitted to us through Prince.
When I came to this store, I could feel the fine line between what's good here and what's not good, and I thought it was a little strange.

――Certainly, I don't have a soft feeling like 80's rock is good or I like old things, but I have a clear sense of values or aesthetic sense.

Shibata : I've never been analyzed that much (lol)

Hamasaki Analysis: When you look at it like this...I think we're the ones who decide what's right or wrong on our own, but I felt like this was the right answer.

――I think that kind of thing will create a feeling. Things like clothes, interior design, and in Hamasaki's case, music. Will it ooze out?

Hamasaki : It seems so, it's a strange thing. I guess it's obvious...or maybe it's the smell. That's why it's like we're all in the same hole, and you can understand it even if you don't put it into words.
I feel that in that part, we are communicating in ways other than language.

Shibata : Today is the first time I've had a proper conversation with Mr. Hamasaki, but when we were filming the music video, I didn't look at my phone much during the waiting time, I just stared straight at the wall.

Hamasaki: Is that so? (lol)

Shibata : but well, I was scared (lol). I was scared, but I felt relieved. I was a little happy when the word "Mujina from the same hole" came up, but even though we couldn't communicate verbally when we were shooting the music video, I felt like he was a really comfortable person.

Hamasaki : As I've gotten older, I've gradually learned how to wait, or rather, I feel like I've become able to do it. When I was young, I was short-tempered, and I had a strong desire to move on to the next thing right away, and to move on to something else, but these days, that kind of thing doesn't happen, but I don't want to wait. remembered. I feel like I learned something.
I'm starting to think that the feeling of waiting isn't so bad. It's logical, for example, that I've come to understand that things are the way they are because of various people making various preparations and various other people's circumstances. Not only that, but being dazed has become quite enjoyable.

Shibata : When I saw Hamasaki looking at the wall, I thought, ``Oh no, I wonder if he's angry'' (lol)

Hamasaki : No, I'm not angry at all. I was just looking at the poster

--Aren't you both the type of people who would be scared if you kept quiet?

Hamasaki : It's been more than 30 years since I've been told that it's scary to stay silent.

Shibata : Sorry! (Laughs) But I felt strangely comfortable.

Hamasaki : Yesterday, there was a photo shoot for the Curling Shitones for a magazine, and there were several covers. So I was told, ``This is the cover, so please smile.'' Because it's the cover! That puts a lot of pressure on me. When it comes to the cover, it absolutely has to be cheerful. Tortoise Matsumoto's smile was so wonderful, and I wanted to be like him, but I couldn't be (lol). I force myself to smile and wonder if it's okay.
Nowadays, it seems like covers are no good if they're scary. In the past, people like Yusaku Matsuda and Shoken were popular. There was a time when people would get all excited about a cover or anything else, and I'm influenced by those times, so somehow I don't think it's okay, but now I can't. After all, this is the era of smiling faces. Especially now that the world doesn't feel so good. Because there are so many challenges, I feel like I'm being asked to do that even more.
I'm thinking of secretly trying to practice my smile from now on (lol)

Shibata : How do you feel about that era? Do you feel like the era of Yusaku Matsuda and Shoken was better?

Hamasaki : No, that's something that's already ingrained in me, so I need to update it. That's what I think. About half of the time, I think, well, maybe I have to change it. Do you mean upgrade the version?

Shibata : update?

Hamasaki : That's right. It feels like updating

ShibataI work in a place called a beauty salon, so a smile is expected of me. That's why I think there's no need for this, for example, in the case of web media, it's a bit of a stretch. I think that kind of thing is cool, so I do it as a style.

Hamasaki: I think it's okay not to smile, but of course that may not work in the current situation. That's why I try not to think that my values are always correct. It's true for me, but I don't want to think that it's true in the world.

For example, when we announce on SNS that FLYING KIDS' new album will be released, of course there will be some reactions, but the next day, Hamasaki pickles. When I posted a photo of what it looked like, I got 10x more reactions. Things like Hama-chan is amazing, she looks delicious, she wants to eat with me. Why not about the album? Something like that (laughs).

However, in reality, I think people are more interested in pickles. So I think it can't be helped. Through that pickle incident, I realized that my philosophy, my music, my thoughts and beliefs that are contained in my albums are not always correct. I feel like my sense of values has been destroyed by pickles...well, I'm the one who's pickled (lol). I guess I'll just live my life by deceiving and deceiving and seeing what happens. Don't be too stubborn about it, just think that it can't be helped. I thought we should promote the album while serving pickles (lol).

Well, I think if everyone enjoys what I put out, that's fine.

--There may be some people who listen to the album because of the pickles (lol).

Hamasaki No, if you don't believe that there is definitely one, you won't be able to do it (lol). However, I haven't seen many beauty salons with this style, so I guess they're trying to do new things like video productions. In times like these, something like a will is needed after all, right?

Shibata : For me, it may be a bit of an understatement, but I would say that the images are like pickles for Mr. Hamasaki. My main job is here (beauty salon), but when it comes to showing more people what I want to do, it's easier to understand through videos. And if I get a reaction from that, I get customers to come to my store, and I feel like I'm doing something interesting. I can also feel a bit of a pickle-like feeling.

Hamasaki : No, I'm not at the level where I'm thinking about pickles properly. I'm really just pickling it (lol)

--There may be some people who listen to the album because of the pickles (lol).

Hamasaki : No, if you don't believe that there is definitely one, you won't be able to do it (lol). However, I haven't seen many beauty salons with this style, so I guess they're trying to do new things like video productions. In times like these, something like a will is needed after all, right?

Shibata : For me, it may be a bit of an understatement, but I would say that the images are like pickles for Mr. Hamasaki. My main job is here (beauty salon), but when it comes to showing more people what I want to do, it's easier to understand through videos. And if I get a reaction from that, I get customers to come to my store, and I feel like I'm doing something interesting. I can also feel a bit of a pickle-like feeling.

Hamasaki : No, I'm not at the level where I'm thinking about pickles properly. I'm really just pickling it (lol)

――It goes with the idea of smiling on the cover, but I tend to think that it's simply better to appeal to the general public as an entry point in order to appeal to a large number of people, but I have my own personal style. I would like to ask both of you what you are particular about.

Hamasaki :In my case, my current activities have been going on for over 30 years. Of course there are things that I'm particular about. As mentioned at the beginning, that smell becomes a kind of scent that attracts people like that. It's like people who like similar scents get together, but whether it's good or bad depends on the wave of the time, age, and many other things, and there's always a question of what's right or wrong. I feel like I'm being exposed.

But it's not like I'm trying to hold on to something and leave it behind, it's like even though I'm facing that and rolling around in the waves, there's something that I'm still holding on to, and it's still going on. That's what I think. If you don't take on the challenge with the mindset that you don't mind throwing it away, it won't work out. I guess I can't survive that wave. When it comes to ourselves...FLYING KIDS, we have a slightly different side, but we have a very strong personal identity.

It's a bit complicated to say, but there are a lot of things that I absolutely don't want to do. But I do do a few things on that list. But there are still things left, so I guess that's just how I feel. I feel like it's something like an identity, something that expresses who I am. When it comes to FLYING KIDS, we are a collection of many different personalities, so you can't say that.

It feels like we're all working together based on keywords like funk and groove, and my favorite musician is Prince.

However, I haven't really decided yet, like I'll go with these words this time. Regarding this album, there was a flag that we wanted to focus on funk and go for something funkier.

--Judging from the album title, it's pretty accurate.

Hamasaki Yeah. That's the part where I said, "FLYING KIDS is a little different," but I thought it would be better to convey that in an easy-to-understand way because they are a collection of individualities. That's why I purposely make it stand out that it's funk or funky. That's how we express everyone. I dared to explain it to you, albeit a bit playfully.

While doing what I want to do, I intentionally make things like the FLYING KIDS flag easy to understand, and I feel like I've accomplished everything with this album, probably for FLYING KIDS in the future. I feel like the band is finally complete.

Up until now, I feel like we've been absorbing a lot of things, learning, and studying together as we move forward, but with this album, we've finally achieved something. I feel like I was able to accomplish this after over 30 years. Right now, I'm thinking that Kintaro-ame would be fine from here on out.

I don't know what will happen when I start making the next one, and of course other members will have opinions, so there is a possibility that it will change depending on other ideas and energy. I've been doing this for 30 years now, so I'm thinking of narrowing down the products in the store. So, I made ice cream and Japanese sweets. This time, the analogy is a sweets shop (lol), but they also have chocolate. Anyway, wouldn't we just have Japanese sweets? That's what I mean. I'm thinking of doing something like that to narrow things down.

That's how we refine our products, and we want our customers to enjoy them without wasting anything. What is this? I want to create a product that you don't have to worry about. The moment I entered the store and saw it, I was like, ``FLYING KIDS'' is the best! I think it would be great if the product became something like this. There's something new here, what do you think? There's always that part, because it's a product. But from now on, I want to make sure that you don't notice that. I didn't realize it, but it felt good that it was happening. I'm starting to think it might turn out like that.

I don't know what will happen when I start making the next one, and of course other members will have opinions, so there is a possibility that it will change depending on other ideas and energy. I've been doing this for 30 years now, so I'm thinking of narrowing down the products that are lined up in the store. So, I made ice cream and Japanese sweets. This time, the analogy is a sweets shop (lol), but they also have chocolate. Anyway, wouldn't we just have Japanese sweets? That's what I mean. I'm thinking of doing something like that to narrow things down.
That's how we refine our products, and we want our customers to enjoy them without wasting anything. What is this? I want to create a product that you don't have to worry about. The moment I entered the store and saw it, I was like, ``FLYING KIDS'' is the best! I think it would be great if the product became something like this. There's something new here, what do you think? There's always that part, because it's a product. But from now on, I want to make sure that you don't notice that. I didn't realize it, but it felt good that it was happening. I'm starting to think it might turn out like that.

--FLYING KIDS seems to be heading in a core direction, but Shuhei-san is currently expanding his reach, starting new videos. I think there's something like that feeling of excitement at that time, but what is your current motivation to try different things?

Shibata: Whether it's a magazine or a video, it all started with our customers. They are the children of my clients, including the members of the video I'm currently working on. That person was originally from a major (video company), an organization that spent a lot of money and used a lot of people, and I was wondering if it was okay for me to stay the way I was. When I heard stories like that, I started thinking about what I could do.

Everyone around me is my customer. Salon means "a gathering of people" in French. What will you do to survive as people gather together? So I guess I'll try this. I feel like it's just an extension of that feeling.

――There is Asagaya 3349, and something is born from the chemical reaction of the people who gather there.

Shibata : IKKI, a video creator, is based on the Ikko Ikki uprising, and I think it would be great if people who made fun of it could be made to laugh. Well, I'm not really being made fun of (lol), but there are a lot of talented people who don't really see the light of day, so I thought it would be great if we could do something together in this community, and that's how it turned out. I feel like that is expanding. Of course, we have employees, so we have to figure out how to survive and feed them. I think carefully about whether this is good or not, and then move on.

Hamasaki : I'm not talking about the gathering of friends, but it's possible that things like the scent that humans exude and their own intentions are leaking out. A lot of people came to see it and came. And you can even make videos like the ones we did. But if it's just a matter of getting friends together and doing something, I wonder if it'll go that far.

Shibata : In that sense, I'm not talking about identity, but I think that the camera is always looking at me. In extreme terms, if there's trash in front of my house, I'll walk past it once when I have to rush to work. But... no, I'll pick it up and go back and clean it. It's not like anyone will praise me for that, but I want to like myself because I see myself.
Containers of pasta from convenience stores fall out after eating, but at least I'd like to think that I'm glad I wasn't the one to throw them away. Even if I can't do everything, I want to think that I'm great and that I'm cool. That is important to me. I kind of wonder if that will give me energy and people will come to work with me.

--I don't care about what other people think of me, I just want to be the cool version of myself.

Shibata : That's right. Of course, I'm happy when people say things like that (lol)

--It's interesting how you started producing videos with the friends you met here, ended up shooting the MV for FLYING KIDS, and even had a conversation where you touched on each other's views on art.

Hamasaki : In the past, people like that would get together...for example, there were people in the movie industry and editors in Golden Gai, but these days it's hard to get together. What's more, I was able to re-evaluate the value of salon-like things in this place, and I was able to make a music video, so I thought it was a wonderful thing to reconsider. Thank you

Shibata : Welcome. thank you

--I think the people watching this video and magazine are only people who are interested in art and fashion, so please give a message to your peers and juniors.

Shibata : It's a little hard to say given the current times, but I hope they take action. I think the first thing to do is move.

Fusejima : (laughs) Shuhei's LINE icon said, "Try it if you are willing to die. I really like that.

Shibata : If I say too much, it will sound like power harassment (lol). But let's be clear: Do it like you're going to die, because you won't die. There are times when it is better to take action.
In business, PDCA is often referred to as PLAN = plan, DO = execution, CHECK = evaluation, and ACTION = improvement. In my case, DDDD. As you progress, you may be able to wait like Mr. Hamasaki and reach the realm of a hermit. You won't know until you take action first.

Hamasaki :I know this is just a normal story, but I think that in the future, we will be able to absorb everything that our predecessors have done and express it with the touch of a button. right.

Just like the camera, just like the music. The final step in our recording process is mastering, but in the past we had engineers, extremely expensive equipment, and a studio in a prime location, where we paid extremely high fees. I used to pay to do it, but now there is mastering software that includes the technology for tens of thousands of yen. I tried using that this time, but I thought it would make me look like an amateur, but when I worked on it, it didn't work at all. Since we have careers, if we include that in our work, the sound is pretty good, isn't it? It turned out to be something like that. There's a lot of other equipment like that.

For example, guitar amp simulators from the 70's or 60's. If you buy a vintage amp, it's expensive and requires a lot of maintenance, but all the data is stored inside the machine, and it produces that kind of sound. If you set the era of the drum kit, you can also create sets by era. In terms of sound, the reproducibility is so high that you wonder if it's OK.

So, the question is, what should we do in such a situation? It's simple; you just have to create something that doesn't exist. It's a simple theme, and I've always been the same about it, but I feel like if I don't reaffirm the idea of creating something that doesn't exist, I'll end up creating something that already exists. But I think that's the essence and root of all expression. I think that I, myself included, need to reconsider the idea of creating something that doesn't exist.

Interviewer: Yoshiko Funami
Photographer : Takeshi Maruyama